On MSNBC Saturday morning, host Ali Velshi and his guests, NYU history professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat and author Joanne Freeman, expressed relief that Democrats weren’t crushed in the midterms but claimed that Republicans are continuing to grow in authoritarianism.
During the segment, Ben-Ghiat claimed that Republican success in Texas and Florida proved those states are "laboratories of autocracy," and mentioned her fear of Gov. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla., whom she called a "smoother extremist" than former President Donald Trump, someone she referred to as a "vindictive authoritarian."
Freeman used her historical knowledge of Civil War-era American politics to note that threats to democracy happen when people who feel entitled to electoral wins, lose.
Velshi began the segment by mentioning his relief that the midterms weren’t a red wave for Republicans, though he asked Professor Ben-Ghiat if America was out of the woods from the threats to democracy allegedly posed by the GOP.
He said, "I feel a slightly lower level of anxiety than I did on Monday. But Ruth, one of the things you warned me about, because you talk about so much history about autocracy, and anti-democracy stuff that, I don’t know, is this just a blip on your radar? Should we be thinking we are out of any woods whatsoever?"
The professor denied that democracy is out of harm’s way entirely, due to the gains Republicans made in red states. She replied, "No, and of course the victory for, you know Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis, and the Texas GOP, these places are going to double down their efforts and become even more laboratories of autocracy to scale up."
Though she provided a silver lining, stating, "One of my mantra’s, I don’t usually say it on the show cause we are talking about, you know, threats that await us, is never underestimate the American people. Cause one of the big takeaways is that we can have confidence in our election system and confidence in our own ability to organize and to affect change."
Ben-Ghiat praised the Democratic wins in elections that she said came "under very difficult circumstances." She added, "That is something to honor and to celebrate."
Velshi asked Freeman how she felt about the election, to which she claimed, "On the one hand, it’s a relief, it could’ve been much worse, it was a victory in some ways for the democratic process. On the other hand, it is also true that that was a very close election and that matters."
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She added that the closeness was "alarming" and a sign that "this is not a moment to let down our guard." Freeman mentioned "fraught elections" from American history and the behavior of those who felt "entitled" to win. "What do the people do who expected to win, who felt entitled to win? What is it that they do when they don’t get what they feel entitled to, and, they are already prone to not necessarily being cozy with the democratic system?"
She added, "So, I personally, as a historian looking back to the election of 1800, or the election of 1860, I am looking ahead and I’ve got my eyes open."
Pivoting on that point, Velshi referred to "candidates who deny elections, candidates who, like Kari Lake in Arizona, who is already calling everyone a cheater and a loser," and asked Ben-Ghiat to speak about them.
Ben-Ghiat remarked, "there’s nothing more dangerous than vindictive authoritarians. And we saw that with Trump who couldn’t stand to lose and so, you know, organized a violent coup attempt, which half the country seems to be forgetting about right now."
She then laid into DeSantis, saying, "also, the anointment of Ron DeSantis is very worrying to me because he is a smoother and more disciplined extremist."
